Meanwhile Space

What would you like to see happen on the St Anne's site in Lewes?

How would you make the project work? What groups are in the town who could help with delivery? Who would benefit from your idea? How would it be funded? How would you make sure it was sustainable?

You can down load a map of the site here.

You can down load a list of suggestions made already here.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Dirk Campbell on July 28, 2011 at 10:11pm

I would like to see St Annes developed as a permaculture site, that is to say it would be used in a way that optimises its usefulness both to humans and to nature. This would involve growing food for human consumption not at the expense of nature but rather in a way that enhances natural cycles and natural systems by working sustainably in the same way that nature works. That is a definition of permaculture.

To do this we would need a proper permaculture designer or design team to look at the land, see what its advantages are and how they can be optimised.

The purpose of this would be to benefit the Lewes community and also to establish a post-oil model of land use in Lewes, where people working on the project would become familiar with permaculture principles and more able to contribute to a resilient future for Lewes.

There is at present as far as I know no-one in Lewes with the experience to manage a large permaculture project of this type involving buildings, open land and a mature ecosystem. We would have to invite someone via the UK Permaculture Association to manage it.

The cost would be a six-month management fee by the permaculture designer and manager, plus attendance fees for follow-up sessions with the site group.

My hope is that once this project had been established and seen to work well, it would be allowed to remain for all the social and material benefits involved such as training in relevant skills, renewable food production and energy generation and employment for young people. I hope that the site would not revert to development land simply to make a profit for the County Council as this would be of no use to Lewes, in fact it would further reduce the resilience of the town and make it less able to function ten and twenty years into the future.

As you mention sustainability I should point out that a temporary use is not a sustainable use, by definition.

Permalink Reply by Marina Pepper on July 28, 2011 at 11:19pm

Putting a graveyard in is definitely unsustainable if it's only for three years. I like the idea of permaculture, but as you say you know of no one in Lewes. So maybe in the spirit of permaculture, we work with the people we have. There is much gardening and growing knowledge in Lewes. Also the one experience I have had of a permaculture "designer" - he couldn't tell his roses from his raspberries. I'm sure this is an isolated case - but if you don't know your plants, how can you share the knowledge? But growing in harmony with this beautiful site is a must. I totally agree with Dirk. And maybe a different group - with a skillsbase in Lewes - could take on the building/buildings. I didn't get the impression from the meeting that it had to be one whole project for the whole time for the whole site. Quite the opposite seemed to be the case. Can anyone clarify?

Dirk Campbell said:

I would like to see St Annes developed as a permaculture site, that is to say it would be used in a way that optimises its usefulness both to humans and to nature. This would involve growing food for human consumption not at the expense of nature but rather in a way that enhances natural cycles and natural systems by working sustainably in the same way that nature works. That is a definition of permaculture.

To do this we would need a proper permaculture designer or design team to look at the land, see what its advantages are and how they can be optimised.

The purpose of this would be to benefit the Lewes community and also to establish a post-oil model of land use in Lewes, where people working on the project would become familiar with permaculture principles and more able to contribute to a resilient future for Lewes.

There is at present as far as I know no-one in Lewes with the experience to manage a large permaculture project of this type involving buildings, open land and a mature ecosystem. We would have to invite someone via the UK Permaculture Association to manage it.

The cost would be a six-month management fee by the permaculture designer and manager, plus attendance fees for follow-up sessions with the site group.

My hope is that once this project had been established and seen to work well, it would be allowed to remain for all the social and material benefits involved such as training in relevant skills, renewable food production and energy generation and employment for young people. I hope that the site would not revert to development land simply to make a profit for the County Council as this would be of no use to Lewes, in fact it would further reduce the resilience of the town and make it less able to function ten and twenty years into the future.

As you mention sustainability I should point out that a temporary use is not a sustainable use, by definition.

Permalink Reply by Marina Pepper on July 28, 2011 at 11:37pm

When we come to evaluate (put me down for that committee), do we judge an idea on the number of suggestions sharing a similar theme? I only ask, as I tend not to contribute an idea if someone has already nailed it succintly.

Here's a few ideas - hostel - short term stays for visitors and the homeless (who might need to stay a bit longer. There is NOWHERE in Lewes if your girlfriend kicks you out or your landlord sells from under you.).

Camping site. Good for local economy and tourism. Self financing.

Community food project - share the skills, share the harvest, feel the love. Proper good old organic fashioned veg growing, while creating a space where people can meet, for the company, for the love of it. Could Common Cause come on board? Can just be outdoors or share indoor space. (I'm more interested in the grounds than the buildings).

Community centre - in the out buildings which are safe - they don't have asbestos according to the report (has it been uploaded for public view yet?) Or we could set up a community yurt of similar temporary structure.

Can the old tool shed next to the garage be given to the young people to run themselves? They tell me they'd like that. Think a litte bit of over seeing might be helpful until they settle in to their responsibilities, should they be given any (high unemployment among school leavers with no incentive to go to college because they can no longer afford to go to uni).

Historical interpretation centre. This site was at the epicentre of the Battle of Lewes 1264. That is a very important battle. Ask the deputy mayor! Infact invite Cllr Chartier to give a talk at the open day. He'd be fab. Mike will no doubt not charge for his time. If it grows legs and runs as an idea, mebs Heritage funds or similar could help.

Seedy Saturday Lewes. Currently takes place in Grange Gardens - which is worn out and over crowded. Maybe Seedy could come to St Annes next February - maybe a veg plot could be created that day (weather permitting) - to grow old heritage varieties. This event gets bits of funding from around the place and has lots of volunteers.

In keeping with good idea sharing practice, I am willing to get stuck in with my own time, energy and resources, to all of my suggestions. I have experience of running campsites, community food projects, I started Seedy Saturday (and still volunteer). Not so much experience of hostels, although I went to boarding school and I'm a former lead member for housing and have worked with lots of homeless people over a whole variety of projects. - Is there a separate thread for skills to share?

Permalink Reply by Marina Pepper on July 29, 2011 at 12:20am

I'd start my funding searches here. http://www.sussexgiving.org.uk/apply-for-funding/?PHPSESSID=1065e10... Other groups who might help: Common Cause, Emmaus, Grow Lewes, St Annes Diggers, Oyster Project, Transition Town Lewes (food group), Boathouse Farm (growing and homeless projects a speciality), The Mound (Brighton), Shelter, Lewes District Council (housing need), Diversity Lewes.

Permalink Reply by Marina Pepper on July 29, 2011 at 12:30am

This pretty much explains how it could work.Lovely film that shows the space well, too. http://www.youandifilms.com/2011/04/ccsc/ It was filmed on site back in late April.

Permalink Reply by Dirk Campbell on July 29, 2011 at 12:18pm

Marina all your ideas may be potentially workable, I wouldn't know, but who is to do the selecting and on what basis? Not, surely, on the basis of strong feelings. My suggestion of a permaculture designer for the whole site is that this is someone who can suggest optimal ways in which the site could work, based on permaculture principles, i.e. that certain types of use are more likely to succeed than others and with less effort!

The fact that the designer may not live in Lewes is not, I think, a relevant consideration. 'Working with the people we have' isn't in the spirit of permaculture if they don't know what they're doing. And it's up to us to ensure that a designer is properly qualified and experienced for the job. If the one you came across was incompetent, then he or she was not properly qualified - anyone can call themselves anything.

Permalink Reply by Growl on July 29, 2011 at 8:58pm

What a beautiful film. Has everyone seen it?Everyone so must. So inspiring. Marina you're so eloquent - give me a call. I want to organise a food growing project around mental health. I think you might be the lady to help.
Marina Pepper said:

This pretty much explains how it could work.Lovely film that shows the space well, too. http://www.youandifilms.com/2011/04/ccsc/ It was filmed on site back in late April.

Permalink Reply by Growl on July 29, 2011 at 8:59pm

I think you both have great ideas. But I do think a bit of community food growing doesn't really need a manager. I know Transition Town style is to get a grant and get in an outsider. And it's a valid way to do things. But we all know how long these things take, whereas a few volunteers and some garden forks can do it just as easily.

Dirk Campbell said:

Marina all your ideas may be potentially workable, I wouldn't know, but who is to do the selecting and on what basis? Not, surely, on the basis of strong feelings. My suggestion of a permaculture designer for the whole site is that this is someone who can suggest optimal ways in which the site could work, based on permaculture principles, i.e. that certain types of use are more likely to succeed than others and with less effort!

The fact that the designer may not live in Lewes is not, I think, a relevant consideration. 'Working with the people we have' isn't in the spirit of permaculture if they don't know what they're doing. And it's up to us to ensure that a designer is properly qualified and experienced for the job. If the one you came across was incompetent, then he or she was not properly qualified - anyone can call themselves anything.

Permalink Reply by St Anne's Diggers on July 29, 2011 at 9:07pm

Rock on girl, that's fantastic. Can't wait for the 13th August.

Marina Pepper said:

This pretty much explains how it could work.Lovely film that shows the space well, too. http://www.youandifilms.com/2011/04/ccsc/ It was filmed on site back in late April.

Permalink Reply by Dirk Campbell on July 29, 2011 at 10:15pm

You didn't understand what I said! :) It's not just about food growing. As I said in my first post we are dealing with a site that has a building, open land and a mature ecosystem and all these aspects must be taken into account. I would like to see a project that has social and material benefits such as training in relevant skills, renewable food production and energy generation and employment for young people. Designing and managing a project like this would be a complicated business and you really do need a skilled designer who understands social interaction and energy flows as well as how to maximise food yields with minimum waste and minimum input.

It is misleading to say that 'Transition Town style is to get a grant and get in an outsider'. Transition being a permaculture model, the idea is to do whatever works! There are some Transition projects that have happened with grant funding and some without. Equally, skills are sought when and where needed, sometimes from within the community and sometimes from elsewhere.

Growl said:

I think you both have great ideas. But I do think a bit of community food growing doesn't really need a manager. I know Transition Town style is to get a grant and get in an outsider. And it's a valid way to do things. But we all know how long these things take, whereas a few volunteers and some garden forks can do it just as easily.

Permalink Reply by Dirk Campbell on July 31, 2011 at 11:43pm

I'm happy to help with this as I do the graphics for Ovesco and Lewes CLT, however we are away from August 4th - 15th See my graphics page here

First thing we need is an effective poster and sufficient of them to give the event some visibility and bring diverse people in. With all due respects the posters thus far have been confusing and visually indistinct. Hopefully the poster for the open day will be more engaging. How are we getting on with this? anyone know?

Permalink Reply by Jessica Courtney Bennett on August 1, 2011 at 11:44am

Hi All

The poster for the open day is on the front of this group page and can be downloaded from the East Sussex Council Website. The design was sent to me from some Lewes residents after the meeting on Wednesday wanting to help.

You can pick up printed posters from the Town Hall later today if you don't have access to a printer.

Please help to get these out to public areas to encourage people to attend.

I will be emailing out information about volunteering later today and will add it to this site.

Thank you for your discussions, I hope we can confirm more details about the Open Day soon.